Gods and Goddesses of Glorantha

[Akhôrahil]

5 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Yes, what I would do is a series of limited scope cult compatibility matrices showing cults that are active in various areas. And you don't need to know in a detailed enumerated chart which chaos deities Storm Bull is hostile to.

Yes, we probably don’t need a relationship level between, I don’t know, Entekos and Tsankth. Listing relevant relations per diety might be easier than a titanic matrix.

Edited September 24, 2021 by Akhôrahil

[Alex]

1 hour ago, PhilHibbs said:

Yes, what I would do is a series of limited scope cult compatibility matrices showing cults that are active in various areas. And you don't need to know in a detailed enumerated chart which chaos deities Storm Bull is hostile to.

Cult compatibility sparse matrices!

I think what I'd do is to have one inter-pantheon matrix, a la GoG, then an intra-pantheon one for each such, and then a list of notable exceptions.  Or heroplane map intersections, to get real fancy like FDWC!  ("We're going to need a bigger book.")

[Shiningbrow]

8 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

I did not notice that, my only reference is the "Dieux de glorantha" matrix, not localised at all, and then, too simple

by the way, a (for me) very nice matrix would be the different "stations" where two gods meet and what it happend

 

for example

ZZ - YO - hill of gold - ambush / zz wins / zz gains fire power from Yo / Yo loses fire power / period (well I don't know)

Orlanth - Kyger - kyger's home - steal / Orlanth wins / Orlanth gains sandals of darkness / Kyger ?... i don't know / period ? i don't know

a very big project... we need a new Descartes to create a great encyclopedia

 

 

 

6 hours ago, Joerg said:

I had such a SQL-based tool on chaosium.com about a dozen years ago. Basically, you link the participants and the locations to an entry describing the event. Unfortunately, it didn't migrate well, and then not at all.

The index also gave page numbers in the publications mentioning these. And it would have been possible to link the database to interactive maps

Can be done in a wiki, too, if you just use the hyperlinks as tags and don't complicate it introducing hierarchical categories.

 

Sounds exceptionally God Learnery to me!!!

[French Desperate WindChild]

6 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

 

 

Sounds exceptionally God Learnery to me!!!

G L+1 = G M

you know the big secret now

[soltakss]

For me, having a downloadable spreadsheet is fine.

[Soccercalle]

On 3/3/2019 at 11:56 AM, Jeff said:

So I am wrapping up the text of this book, while making sure that it all ties into both the new Heroquesting chapters in the GM Sourcebook and into the Hero Wars Campaign. It is increasingly looking like this will be a two-volume book, as it includes the long form of more than 70 cults.

It is perhaps easier to say what the book does not have:

 

2 and a half years of "wrapping up the text". I think you need a new editor 😉

This is one of the most important source books for a GM and I think its better to get it out than to make it "perfect". Going from 99 to 99.9% of perfect is rarely a good way of using time or other resources.

[Jeff]

11 minutes ago, Soccercalle said:

2 and a half years of "wrapping up the text". I think you need a new editor 😉

This is one of the most important source books for a GM and I think its better to get it out than to make it "perfect". Going from 99 to 99.9% of perfect is rarely a good way of using time or other resources.

Art takes a long time man.

[Soccercalle]

3 hours ago, Jeff said:

Art takes a long time man.

I understand that. But I think most GMs prefer to get the rules sooner with less art instead of waiting years to get the best art. You already have a system where the pdf is released before the hardcover books. Why not have a first version of the pdf without all the art. That would also help with the cashflow.

[g33k]

On 9/27/2021 at 10:08 AM, Soccercalle said:

I understand that. But I think most GMs prefer to get the rules sooner with less art instead of waiting years to get the best art. You already have a system where the pdf is released before the hardcover books. Why not have a first version of the pdf without all the art. That would also help with the cashflow.

I have suggested that before.
I don't think Chaosium wants to do it.

I'm not clear why they are resisting all the "Shut Up And Take My Money" clamor!  I think Chaosium *likes* money...

I hypothesize they fear some confusion and/or early-reportage of how "the look is a disappointment," to the overall detriment of sales and/or damage to the RQG product-line...

but that's just me being an internet-rando-theoretician, not any knowledge of Chaosium's decision-making process.
 

[Baron Wulfraed]

2 hours ago, g33k said:

I'm not clear why they are resisting all the "Shut Up And Take My Money" clamor!  I think Chaosium *likes* money...

I hypothesize they fear some confusion and/or early-reportage of how "the look is a disappointment," to the overall detriment of sales and/or damage to the RQG product-line...

There is also the matter that they'd be laying out two PDF formats, with different pagination (unless the layout has reserved spaces for images in advance). Two formats means twice the work put into the PDFs, and can you hear the uproar if buyers of the "B/W" PDF are then charged again to get the "colorized" PDF -- if they don't charge for the later colorized version then they are losing money on the product.

[g33k]

3 hours ago, Baron Wulfraed said:

There is also the matter that they'd be laying out two PDF formats, with different pagination (unless the layout has reserved spaces for images in advance). Two formats means twice the work put into the PDFs, and can you hear the uproar if buyers of the "B/W" PDF are then charged again to get the "colorized" PDF -- if they don't charge for the later colorized version then they are losing money on the product.

Not a layout expert, but I *think* a text-only doc can be set to automatically avoid orphans and widows &such.

The proposal is for a *very* minimalist product.
For me, it could even be straight-up  .TXT  doc !
 

[Alex]

3 hours ago, Baron Wulfraed said:

There is also the matter that they'd be laying out two PDF formats, with different pagination (unless the layout has reserved spaces for images in advance). Two formats means twice the work put into the PDFs, and can you hear the uproar if buyers of the "B/W" PDF are then charged again to get the "colorized" PDF -- if they don't charge for the later colorized version then they are losing money on the product.

The way a lot of KS "reward packages" do this is you get advance "as good as we have right now" PDFs, but in a higher-priced bundle which also includes some configuration of the finished product too.  So there's limited extra work involved for the publisher, no loss of sales to people looking to get a perfect product cheaper and sooner (and then complaining when they don't get it, indeed), and no confusion of expectation.

OTOH, this isn't a KS, obviously, so this isn't something there's a general expectation Chaosium do.  It may still be more nuisance than they want to make for themselves -- at least some sort of content-checking before a version-freeze, and the mailouts themselves need to be set up.  And maybe counter-productive as people start yammering away about the product months and years in advance, as g33k suggests.

For this product I think best to treat as "that ship's sailed", rather than badgering them to change their sales and marketing this late on in a product cycle.  But maybe begging and pleading under separate cover for future products to be done like this, if people also want to pay extra for advance sight of the GMG, the Sartar Book, the Gazetteer, and whatever else might be in or adjacent to the pipe.

Another internet-rando-theoretician without any knowledge of Chaosium's decision-making process, though I think that disclaimer is redundant as implied.

[simonh]

There's also the issue of publicity. Products generally get a rush of sales on release which tails off. If the final book with art is seen as just a follow-up on an already released product that could significantly detract from the launch buzz.

[Jeff]

We have ZERO interest in releasing a pdf of the Cults or any other book without the art. The art is a key part of the book. I don't mind selling a limited numbers of draft manuscripts at a special convention, but that's about it. 

[PhilHibbs]

On 9/29/2021 at 5:37 PM, g33k said:

I hypothesize they fear some confusion and/or early-reportage of how "the look is a disappointment," to the overall detriment of sales and/or damage to the RQG product-line...

but that's just me being an internet-rando-theoretician, not any knowledge of Chaosium's decision-making process.

I think Jeff has pretty much said that almost verbatim, but it's only one reason and maybe not the primary one.

Edited October 1, 2021 by PhilHibbs

[DreadDomain]

On 9/30/2021 at 2:37 AM, g33k said:

I hypothesize they fear some confusion and/or early-reportage of how "the look is a disappointment," to the overall detriment of sales and/or damage to the RQG product-line...

As much as I am very keep to get my hands on the cults book, a pre-release being detrimental to the full release is certainly a distinct possibility

On 9/30/2021 at 10:50 PM, Jeff said:

We have ZERO interest in releasing a pdf of the Cults or any other book without the art. The art is a key part of the book. 

But to me, as a customer, this is the main consideration. While I accept for some art and production value is not that important, I am firmly in the camp believing RPG books need strong visual identities and I'd rather wait for the complete product than read a text only version. Similarly, I would not watch, even for free, an advance viewing of the next big, universally anticipated block buster movie with the special effects unfinished. I view rpg books with strong visual identities, like RuneQuest and Call of Cthulhu, similarly. I appreciate others will have different views.

[g33k]

5 minutes ago, DreadDomain said:

... While I accept for some art and production value is not that important, I am firmly in the camp believing RPG books need strong visual identities and I'd rather wait for the complete product than read a text only version. Similarly, I would not watch, even for free, an advance viewing of the next big, universally anticipated block buster movie with the special effects unfinished. I view rpg books with strong visual identities, like RuneQuest and Call of Cthulhu, similarly. I appreciate others will have different views.

I *LOVE* the great art in this Glorious Reascent of RuneQuest!  Across the line, top to bottom.  It's incredible!   (only one quibble -- some pieces seem to be too dark and/or too muddy/low-res; Chaosium needs a better QC on a few of those (I suspect it's something in the print cycle that their art-files aren't optimized for) ) .

And, at the same time, I have *multiple* cults that I and my players would like to use, that we currently have to guess at.  We could (would!) be using those today, if the text was available (*AND* we would buy the DeadElf copies as soon as they could be bought).  I know other groups and individuals are in like circumstances; one group even claimed (a bit hyperbolically, IMHO... but "the customer is always right" &c) that RQG is "unplayable" for them, for lack of certain cults!

[SDLeary]

OK, something of a counterpoint. 

While I LOVE purdy books with fabulous art and cartography, I'm not looking for a coffee-table book. I'm looking for a game book that looks good, but will handle everyday use at the table, around food and drink.

So, while old-style black and white artwork from yesteryear really doesn't cut it by todays standard, heading too far in the other direction (just to keep up with the joneses) is also something that doesn't go over well, especially if it significantly delays a "finished" product.

SDLeary

[Shiningbrow]

Apologies for asking for sensitive information, but...

Will LM have God-Talkers and Rune Lords - particularly with the Sword Sages? And, also, different factions with different requirements for advancement?

In particular, what would be the requirements for an RL Sword Sage?

As for the second bit, what about sorcerous factions? Will that get included?

[Martin Dick]

3 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

Apologies for asking for sensitive information, but...

Will LM have God-Talkers and Rune Lords - particularly with the Sword Sages? And, also, different factions with different requirements for advancement?

In particular, what would be the requirements for an RL Sword Sage?

As for the second bit, what about sorcerous factions? Will that get included?

No Sword Sages, only martial cults have RuneLords. No God-Talkers in the Gencon Preview edition, 

[GoldShogun]

How is the cult distribution broken down in the book, is it by homeland? Interested in knowing if there is a cult breakdown for Lunar Tarsh as I don’t think I’ve seen one ever before for the area.

[Jeff]

18 minutes ago, GoldShogun said:

How is the cult distribution broken down in the book, is it by homeland? Interested in knowing if there is a cult breakdown for Lunar Tarsh as I don’t think I’ve seen one ever before for the area.

By Homeland. And there are breakdowns for:

Sartar

Grazelands

Old tarsh

Lunar Tarsh

Caladraland

Esrolia

Heortland

Rightarm Islands

Dital

God Forgot

Bison Tribe

High Llama tribe

Pol-Joni

Impala Tribe

Sable Tribe

Morokanth

Rhino Tribe

Zebra Tribe

Unicorn Tribe

Aggar

Holay

Vanch

Imther

Darjiin

Doblian

First Blessed

Karasal

Kostaddi

Oraya

Oronin

Silver Shadow

Sylila

West Reaches

AND For:

Brown Elves

Green Elves

Yellow Elves

Dagori Inkarth

Shadow Plateau/Troll Woods

Elder Wilds

Halikiv

Yolp

Blue Moon Plateau

Mistress Race (anywhere)

Trollkin (anywhere)

 

 

[Runeblogger]

Since the book will include Yanafal Tarnils and the rest of the Mothers as proper cults, can anyone please tell me if Yanafal initiates have access to True Weapon? Also, could a Seven Mothers Runelord have access to True Weapon through some sort of Yanafal Tarnils subcult? I guess Seven Mothers initiates can transition smoothly to the proper Yanafal Tarnils cult if they pass the tests, but do they then start a separate Rune point pool? How does that work?

[simonh]

14 minutes ago, Runeblogger said:

Since the book will include Yanafal Tarnils and the rest of the Mothers as proper cults, can anyone please tell me if Yanafal initiates have access to True Weapon?

Back in the day the general consensus was to use Humakt cult magic as a guide for Yanafal Tarnils but without Sever Spirit. Hopefully we'll get a bit more to work with in the new book.

Edited October 18, 2021 by simonh

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Runeblogger said:

Since the book will include Yanafal Tarnils and the rest of the Mothers as proper cults, can anyone please tell me if Yanafal initiates have access to True Weapon?

Yes, Truesword.

1 hour ago, Runeblogger said:

Also, could a Seven Mothers Runelord have access to True Weapon through some sort of Yanafal Tarnils subcult?

Yes.